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E17 vs E19 - Which are you using and why?


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#21 Sitting Fox

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:21 PM

Well, if e19 is still there in the repos and it's still better than what's available with Ubuntu.... :lol:





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#22 Duma

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:33 PM

I rarely use e19 because I prefer MATE desktop, but probably e17 works fine. I don't remember totally because after years with no updates it has changed a lot on few months and I haven't refocused what e17 actually is.

I'm not totally sure about developing theme that are just old so I don't really know what to do if you choose to downgrade.
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#23 Jeff

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:39 PM

Why do we have to think of E17 as "old" software if we are going to make improvements to it? Past that - if it works well - who cares when the last code update was? Personally I think there might be value to simple improving E17 with small improvements and bug fixes. E18 and E19 have gotten so caught up with full rewrites that a lot of the basics feel ignored. I think E17 is a good, light core that is worth while.

 

Thoughts?



#24 Sitting Fox

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 11:28 PM

I may prefer e19, but I agree with Jeff. Just because e17 came out before, no matter how much time between them, it doesn't automatically mean something's wrong/inferior with it. I say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and e19 is more "broke" than e17 is right now. (And the latest update to it broke it more, so Jeff didn't give it to us.)

 

If improvements will be made, that's just icing on the cake.

 

Latest doesn't mean greatest. Heck, a lot of the people converting to Linux because of lost support from Windows XP will understand that one.



#25 Randy

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 01:48 AM

I agree with Jeff. In the end e17 has more functionality, faster speed and lighter to run than e19. When it comes to Enlightenment whats old? How long were e16 and 17 in testing before we got a stable release? 10+ years? I agree "do one thing and do it well"!  isn't this the Linux mantra?

I could see moving to a newer version if there were substantial improvements, but mostly all I see are regressions.


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#26 FameWolf

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 02:49 AM

If you do "revert" back to e17 will you still maintain a separate legacy build with optimized non pae kernel?  I think that still adds value for older hardware.



#27 Jeff

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 02:54 AM

We will always offer a non-PAE disc. That choice is 100% independent of E version.



#28 JollyRoger

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:48 PM

JollyRoger -

WPS seems to work fine here with E17.6:

 

Jeff

 

From your screenshot it looks like you are using the Ribbon style. I had no problem with WPS Writer on E17 until I changed the interface from the Ribbon to the Classic style. It failed after that change.

 

Regards - and thanks again for everything.



#29 Jeff

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:34 PM

You mean this or something else?

e-55218e45885a11.49349983.png



#30 hazel123

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 09:15 PM

I have Bodhi 2 E17 on two Eee PC's (a 701 and a 701sd), Xubuntu 12.04 on another one, Bodhi 2 E17 on Fizzbook Spin (which is a weird thing with touch screen and dual-booted with Windows 7 and Intel educational software).  E19 Bodhi 3 installs and runs on it fine via usb installation.  Only just started trying E19.  Tried legacy E19 on Eee 904HA but prefer E17 for that one as the touchpad's too slow to cope with E19.  Will be installing E19 on next Eee pc I sell though. On Bodhi 3 I prefer E19 to legacy - it's more 'complete' somehow.  Overall I prefer E17 though, it seems simpler and just works on everything.  Love it.  My favourite parts of it are the places gadget for the desktop (especially for Eee PC's so you can see how much space you have left every time you install something), and the themes. 



#31 Sitting Fox

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:13 AM

Maybe I'll try to experiment with the e17 Radiance theme this weekend and see how that goes. I was thinking of redo-ing the installs on the Chromebooks from scratch anyway.

 
I've been playing with this some on and off today. So far, so good.
 
I expected the e17 theming to be much different, but it's really pretty similar to how it is in e19. I've pretty much got an identical look to the customized version based on Duma's e19 Radiance/Bodhi 3 RC1 theme that I had thrown together before.
 
Still want to work with the icons a bit and maybe some other tweaks, but very snazzy, e17. Very snazzy.


 
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#32 JollyRoger

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 07:52 AM

You mean this or something else?

 

Yes, I do mean that (i.e. the Classic style user interface). I can see you have WPS Writer running under E17, with that UI. In my case it collapsed after a short while (on two computers) and wouldn't run again, even after reinstalling (whereas on E19 I have had no such problems). This was E17 Legacy, by the way, i.e. non-PAE.

 

Regards



#33 Kev

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 04:08 PM

Im using E19 on my VM and on my laptop at home... my experimental laptop has Bodhi 2.4 with E17.   E19 feels solid but I think I had more options to play with using E17 (desktop settings etc...)

 

E17 (0.16) had been out for a long time.  Enlightenment, if i remember right...correct me if im wrong, had been at DR 0.16 forever.... or at least it seemed that way. 


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#34 hazel123

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 04:55 PM

Just installed Bodhi 3 legacy (E17 is that?) onto Eee PC 701 4GB.  Installed fine.  Seems similar - maybe a bit zippier and more sophisticated.  Strangely I had got to quite like doing the initial updates in the terminal, which I had never done before until using Bodhi.  Now I've got used to it I find the updater program a bit annoying lol - especially with the blue flashing line - but I can always look the other way, and it's what people new to Linux need.  I've deleted the three icons, moved the top bar to the bottom and changing the theme to a lighter one with bigger text - so looks similar to before now!  It's nice to know it is supported for a long time now.  At the moment I still prefer Bodhi 2 but I'm slow to embrace change.



#35 sef

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 05:07 PM

There are some small parts of e19 that I like, but when it comes to functionality and tweak-ability, I much prefer e17.

- I think there are more modules available in e17.

- It does seem to me like e19 is more stable though and doesn't "segv'd" (require a restart) nearly as often.

- But to be honest, if I could get the engage module in e19, I'd have no complaints.

- I do miss the ability to customize the theme in e17. I miss being able to mix & match modules and looks.

- I like the 'grow' desktop flip animation in e19.



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or as hopeless as it seems in the middle,
or as finished as it seems in the end.


#36 tgentry

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 06:11 PM

Ok I'm confused. When you say E17 in 3.0 what are you referring to? Which iso would I download to get E17? I only installed E19 when 3.0 was released. I since removed bodhi 3.0 E19 as I was getting more crashes lately in the E19 having to recover by F1. Would it be the 3.0 Legacy?


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#37 Sitting Fox

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 06:23 PM

Ok I'm confused. When you say E17 in 3.0 what are you referring to? Which iso would I download to get E17? I only installed E19 when 3.0 was released. I since removed bodhi 3.0 E19 as I was getting more crashes lately in the E19 having to recover by F1. Would it be the 3.0 Legacy?


Hey tgentry,
 

Bodhi 3 Legacy comes with e17, while the other versions come with e19. However, you can swap out e19 for e17 and vice versa if you'd like to. Don't have to go grab a different iso.

 

So if like you said, you install Bodhi 3 with e19, you can swap e19 out for e17 if you are having problems with it or if you just want to try something else.



#38 Astroboy

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:09 AM

I feel soooo relieved that almost everybody has the same feelings about E19 as me. :lol:

 

Since 2015/03/02, we had already stated on the Escuelas Linux blog our point of view about E19:

 

http://sourceforge.n...e-announcement/

 

"3. There are no features missing in our Enlightenment 17 (E17) implementation, compared with the one included in Bodhi Linux 3.0 Legacy Edition. And as for the default Enlightenment 19 (E19) included in the regular Bodhi Linux 3.0 series, we hadn't found any compelling reason to consider a future release of Escuelas Linux based on E19, at least in the short term.

 

4. Up to this date, E19 offers less features compared with what is available on E17 and -worse yet- E19 is really slow on not-so-new computers. One of the main reasons we chose Enlightenment as the Escuelas Linux graphical interface, was to be able to run a beautiful desktop environment that didn't need a lot of computer resources. Sadly, E19 is heading to other way and, until it has some compelling features, we plan to stay on E17, at least for now."



#39 Duma

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 09:18 AM

Maybe my point of view could be not so clear, but you have asked for thoughts, so here's my random ones.
 

Why do we have to think of E17 as "old" software if we are going to make improvements to it? Past that - if it works well - who cares when the last code update was? Personally I think there might be value to simple improving E17 with small improvements and bug fixes. E18 and E19 have gotten so caught up with full rewrites that a lot of the basics feel ignored. I think E17 is a good, light core that is worth while.
 
Thoughts?


Which are the improvements that we are going to make to E17? I've though we just package E.
E17 is considered old, in my opinion, if there's no updates, no bugfixes and no features adds. Do you know if there's others E17 updates? Otherwise, it's old.
 
To speak in favour of E19, it has a better composite and all it's related is more clean and clear: there's no "shaped engine", no useless dropshadow module that makes conflicts with the composite and similar stuffs. If I've well understood all the shell is composite, not only the windows (like other DE as Unity, Plasma or GNOME 3) and that makes E19 a more hungry for resources.

I am interested to know a point of view of a developer that can explain us the real improvements of E19 on E17, because it's important that if users haven't noticed, that doesn't mean that there aren't.
 
I suppose (and I tell this as a owner of a Pentium with only 3,2 GHz -no multicore- with more than 8 year of usage, not a lamergamer with latest computer) that the cheapest, but recent computers now can use E19 without any lag.
So if Bodhi choose E17 I suppose can be a system oriented only for old computer because others could choose E19 taked from ubuntu ppa or Arch Linux Repository... and they can't be only bit***s for that.
 
I appreciate the Jeff's pragmatic approach: let's talk about features and user experience.

To be honest I have to try E17 more to know how it works and if it works better / worse than E19, so I can't really talk about features and my user experence, but I would instill the doubt that E17 just because works faster is better that E19, updates and bugfixes are important and in my opinion the way that E19 manage the composite is better than the E17 one.

 

---

 

By the way, can't wait to see E20 in action because there's interesting screenshots like this:

https://www.enlighte...c6.91797540.jpg

 

Do you know an ETA for E20?


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#40 Jeff

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 11:42 AM

Which are the improvements that we are going to make to E17? I've though we just package E.

E17 is considered old, in my opinion, if there's no updates, no bugfixes and no features adds. Do you know if there's others E17 updates?

 

I am thinking of changing this. For the sake of improving the end user experience I am considering taking a more active role in the desktop we are maintaining (instead of just churning out what the E team releases) because of the quality of recent E releases. As for non-Bodhi people working on E17 - there was activity in the E17 git branch as little as 6 days ago -> https://git.enlighte...ightenment-0.17

 

As someone who has been filing E bugs for awhile now, I have become increasing frustrated with how many "won't fix" issues there are with E19. None of the E developers actually use E19 (they use git - which is VERY unstable these days) so they have little to no incentive to test or fix the release tarbals. I feel like if they Bodhi team is going to start making bug fixes to a desktop, the E17 core gives us a more reasonable start.

There aren't many bugs with E17 as is. If we started working with it I would want to start making small improvements like back porting the improved pulse mixer (or writing a better one) and ripping out things like the "useless dropshadow module that makes conflicts with the composite and similar stuffs". Starting with something stable like E17 could really allow us to focus on new features as opposed to chasing down new bugs every release.

 

The big difference between E18+ and E17 is that E18+ are fairly large rewrites that were churned out over the course of less than a year, while E17 was 10~ years in the making and time was taken to get things right as opposed to making release dates.

 

Part of the reason I took a break from Bodhi last year was that I became so increasingly frustrated dealing with E19 that I stopped using Enlightenment all together and picked up KDE as my daily desktop. Dealing with tickets the last month was driving me towards similar feelings again so I took a deep breath and reinstalled E17. After doing this all thoughts of KDE went away as E17 "just works" for me in such a nice way.

There isn't an ETA on E20 as far as I know. Which hopefully means it might be reasonable again. The only problem is that again the E team is spending all of their time on back end rewrites. When all the developer time goes into backend features and no time is spent on end user features - it feels like there is no progress made.






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