[oqbqbodpdpo]

If Bodhi is able to boot in RAM from Live medium does this mean that can it be configured to do so from a harddrive install? I've played a bit with Puppy Linux and am wondering if Bodhi can emulate some of it's characteristics.

[oqbqbodpdpo]

hmmm ---
After browsing around the forum a bit it seems to me that my inquiry may fit better in ">general >discussion".
Is there an automated way to move a thread from one topic to another?
Or should I just delete and repost?


[edit] By he way, 'Thank You' to the benevolent soul who moved this thread for me!

[Shazam]

Now that's a good question. I'd love to run bodhi from ram ;D

edit: I've tried to find out how it could be possible...

I'm guessing, you mean that

- On boot up, everything is loaded right into the ram, straight from the harddrive
- As long as you're working with the system, only the ram is used, the harddrive is only activated to write something to it (a libre-office document for example)

From what I read, to easiest way to make that possible should be the "toram" command. From what I hear, this doesn't work with the standard-Ubuntu (which means, that if the developers of Bodhi didn't actively integrate it in some way it wouldn't be possible without some difficult work).

@The Developers:
Integrating toram into Bodhi 2.0 would just be by far the most awesome thing to do

I'm no expert on this matter, but that's what I found out when I tried to figure out how it could be possible. I guess we're gonna have to wait for Jeff to help us out here


edit 2:

This looks promising:
http://ubuntuforums....d.php?t=1594694

[jmadero]

I doubt that this will be implemented any time soon if it will require a ton of work from the Bodhi team. There is a lot to get done still just to get 2 working and the development team is small. Maybe direct this at getting Ubuntu team to get it working with 12.04 and then it will easily be possible with Bodhi.

[Shazam]

Well, judging from what I've read, it would only be a ton of work for somebody like me that has no idea what he's doing Jeff could probably have this up and running in no time.

This looks like a way to get it done: http://ubuntuforums....d.php?t=1680931

[Elw3]

well what are you trying to gain?
speed? i doubt it will speed up things.
silence? shut down harddrive spin maybe? this is possible you just need to direkt all settings write actions into ram or /dev/null
being able to remove the boot medium after boot? that on the other hand needs the toram comand and wont work on bodhi yet.

[Shazam]

Why do you doubt that it will be faster? Ram is like a bazillion times faster than a normal hdd.

[Elw3]

depending on what should go faster, boot times wont improve since the files need to get read from the hd anyway.
program start times would of course improve but i the only program that let me wait on start is darktable which cant work out of the ram anyway so for my case i dont see improvement.

[Shazam]

I think it depends a lot on how exactly everything is loaded.

If you load just the minimum straight into the ram before booting, it shouldn't really take much longer to boot. If you then load the rest, as soon the desktop itself is up and running, you should be able to achieve a good compromise of everything.

[Shazam]

Douple post, no idea how that happened...

[oqbqbodpdpo]

Here's an example of an E17 desktop on an OS that runs in RAM
Compare and judge for yourself.

http://macpup.org/

Puppies solution seems to be based around loading persistent squashfs files to RAM at boot that get updated to the storage media at shutdown and also may sporadically update during a session. I'm not sure if the .sfs files are read and expanded into RAM or copied as squashfs compressed and extracted dynamically while in use. I believe the latter, but that's just my guess.

Another thing to note is that with Puppy's "frugal install" method the boot medium and the persistence storage medium can easily be on different devices.
[Common is to initiate boot from a cd or thumbdrive and then load (and store) the rest of the OS and personal data from hdd. Or to exist completely on a thumbdrive for portability.]

[oqbqbodpdpo]

See also... http://puppylinux.or...g%20Started.htm ...for more on the hows and whys of running in RAM, and Puppy OS's in general.

I guess what struck me in the first place was that if the live image of Bodhi has already been configured to run in RAM that perhaps the ground work has already been done to allow for an extra speedy Bodhi Ultra-lite with "frugal install" options, like a Puppy, but with the Bodhi graphics, app, and feature choices. An ultra-lite with E17 woven in from the get go rather than layered on top of a previous tradition.

[p.s. Yes, loading the OS to RAM can slow down boot. I can get a glass of water or look out the window for a second during boot. I'm thinking of speed during use, for running demanding apps, and for old machines with slow drives.]

[Elw3]

frugall is basicly the same as a live cd or thumb drive. you can use unetbootin to create it...

[swordplay]

That suggests that you could put your HDD in an external case, and from another machine use unetbootin to do a Live install to it (you can choose the drive) and max out the persistence setting.

Reinstall and boot, and you're good. (You can probably edit the syslinux (extlinux) settings to skip the startup screen. Don't know if you'll have to do the keyboard setup every time -- might be a setting somewhere.

It won't be very upgradeable, but with so much persistence you can probably install anything you want.

Aloha,

m a r

[spainach]

I've used puppy before enticed by the idea of a seemingly faster os and the promise of portability and security. However, I did find that you still have to be mindful of hardware. An old 228Mb DDR1 for example in my old computer lacks the capacity to run puppy for long periods of time, eventually reaching up to circumstances when a shutdown, five to ten minute breaks, and a heck of a long bootup was needed. Though I suppose this wouldn't be the case with most old computers, in such a scenario, the possibility exists of an old ram being used (to say that this is for the benefit of an old computer, I presumed that the whole of it is old, from processor to ram).

I don't quite understand the concept of being "fast" here. I created a simple test, one using Puppy (RAM) and then using Bodhi (HDD). I noticed that I can get that snappy feeling of being "fast" by reducing the workload in the environment for Bodhi. Theoretically, this should mean that Puppy should do better in multitasking, that is launching apps simultaneously. Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that apps are launching much faster than the ones in Bodhi multitasking. However, there's a limit to how much it can handle. I assume because RAM is being used, a significant part of it was being used and therefore, there is not enough left for RAM-heavy apps (i.e. Firefox, flash, java) and significantly reduces performance over time. As opposed to Bodhi that though a few seconds are wasted on application start, over time use has not shown a decrease in performance and produce little to no errors which goes to show that long-term multitasking is still best done on a Hard Drive. Perhaps I'll do a retest and make a video out of it some time. I'll see if I can find that old computer intact. I've been having hard drive problems the past few months, so I'm not quite sure if I can reproduce the test.

To conclude, it's good for booting and using an old computer especially ones with a worn hard drive, maybe for rescuing files, or doing paperwork, light work, but not for general media and internet use. But for newer systems, yes, it does give you a sense of being faster, though I still prefer hd use quite simply because it doesn't make much of a difference.

P.S.
I would like to add that I am no expert in these matters and are making statements based on previous observations. Might I add that I am a literature major? And among the few who takes an interest in these subjects. So don't give me too much credit for something I'm ignorant of.

[drifter.herbert]

i find that puppy is fast...but provided you have sufficient amount of ram...

[Shazam]

drifter.herbert, on 13 June 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

i find that puppy is fast...but provided you have sufficient amount of ram...

Of course you need enough ram, but I believe that's where one of the guiding principle of Bodhi should come into play: User choice! If a user has sufficient ram, why not offer the possibility to run Bodhi from ram?

Oh and by the way, I've tried to make it run using the script I've posted earlier: It doesn't work on Bodhi, for some reason I'm unable to install live-initramfs.

[spainach]

Shazam, on 13 June 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

Of course you need enough ram, but I believe that's where one of the guiding principle of Bodhi should come into play: User choice! If a user has sufficient ram, why not offer the possibility to run Bodhi from ram?

Oh and by the way, I've tried to make it run using the script I've posted earlier: It doesn't work on Bodhi, for some reason I'm unable to install live-initramfs.

Well, I could provide a short and quick analysis...let me see...

Pros
1. Security -- any critical changes need not be saved
2. Speed -- a debatable effect. Faster app launch times due to the natures and principles of RAM and application launching.

Cons
1. Stability -- first and foremost issue. Running in RAM what (from where it is derived and as testified above) is incapable of running in RAM.
2. Coding -- may be considered as a sub-topic of Stability. Requires additional code which is far too complex. Elements such as time, stability, size, usability, costs, etc. come into consideration.
3. Speed -- debatable. Under the prospect of being run from generally new hardware, speed differences are minimal if any and only first launch is considerable, although not entirely significant.
4. Bodhi Principle -- as argued above, one of the main guiding principle of Bodhi is user-choice. However, as attested in various topics in the forum, the main guiding principle is necessity (in particular, the question "is it necessary for the OS to run and function?"). As a direct counter-argument, most users need no "Run in RAM" option which leaves creating two versions of Bodhi as the most viable alternative and in such a case, the argument of coding rejects the idea.
5. General Usage -- the option is not applicable to general usage and is thus therefore rendered useless to a significantly high no. of systems affected, relegating the feature more or less a toy.
6. Potential Data Loss -- also coming from the argument of stability, potential data loss is high and whole system corruption, though unlikely, is possible.
7. Necessity and Alternative -- the necessity of the feature is very minimal and of which the said effects (particularly in security) are achievable via alternative methods (i.e. running a LiveCD with toram, or Puppy itself) and are generally more secure. Speed, as mentioned, is debatable and is thus therefore irrelevant.

A good suggestion . Nonetheless, with the cons outweighing the pros, I'll give this suggestion a verdict of "No, thank you."

[Smallwheels]

If you could run everything in RAM for specific tasks, such as using the internet, then as soon as you turned off the computer your history would be erased. Wouldn't it also prevent your computer from downloading spyware and viruses?

Months ago I read a story about this. It took me to this site: https://tails.boum.org/. There is a disc image there that can be run as a live CD or USB drive. The point of it is to make all of your internet usage totally anonymous. Could this run in RAM?

I wanted to try it but didn't because I didn't know what a check sum was or how to implement it. I see that the file has been updated since I was last there. You can't update previous versions. To use the latest one a new disc must be created.

Supposedly there is a way for files to be saved to the computer, but it can only happen by direct command of the user. If nothing can be saved to the disc then malware can't be put onto the computer. That is the other reason for using this technique for surfing the web. A USB stick could be corrupted but it still wouldn't affect your computer unless you deliberately transferred files to it.

Is this a slow way to use the internet? Can movies be streamed using such a method? If one uses a USB 3 for this wouldn't it be quicker?

[spainach]

posting from phone.

true, theoretically it prevents malware from being dl'ed, however, browsers cannot be run in linux without the consent of the user. additionally, using a download manager gives more control to what is downloaded and what is not. then of course, you may also use a livecd and changes wont be saved. a virtual session also may be used or a kiosk or using web emulators, etc.

there are dozens of possible solutions more stable and secure than running in ram.