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Jeff

Things Moksha Could do Better

Question

After we get the base rolling with a few bug fixes, module integration, and bodhi patches I want to start making some improvements to Moksha. So - what are some things you've always wished E did differently that we can change for Moksha?

 

My top three are:

  • More modern / trim Main Menu - the current one feels cluttered and looks like something straight out of Windows 98
  • Improved settings panel - the current one is a bear to find things in. A search option would be lovely.
  • Improved keybindings / edge bindings list - For the love of god these two need a search option

 

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As duma mentioned these are elm applications that use a separate theme file / setting in Moksha and E17 unlike in E19. When I get around to rewriting the configuration dialogs for Moksha settings the theme for GTK / Elm / Moksha itself will all be one step ideally.

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Many good thoughts here, folks - interesting stuff.

I've 'Liked' the ones that  appeal to me.

 

This thought may seem like an 'old codger eyesight' issue, but I've checked with some of the young'uns in our posse, and it  met with agreement. 

 

It's this:  easier re-sizing of all windows/dialogue-boxes/whatever.

 

I have long  suffered from computer rage (since Win 3.0) when dealing with Windows because of this issue - they'd only give you the size of box/window thing  that they deemed adequate, so you'd end up peering through this tiny aperture on your screen trying to scry the entrails of some operation by panning-and-scanning with scroll bars, if you were lucky.  

Keyhole surgery with a blunt axe if you were unlucky.

 

So easily fixed with a sticky re-sizable window/box/whatever.

 

Bodhi has been wonderful in this regard - in Bodhi 1.0 I'd just go into Settings -> All -> Settings-> Dialogs and then tick the  "Remember size and Position of Dialogs" box.

 

Then as we'd use our newly installed system varii boxes/windows would get resized for our use case until everything pretty much fitted when launched. Great!

 

Then one day, with a(nother) fresh ISO installation, Hooray!  

Some wond'rous person had arranged that this was pre-ticked on installation.  

Thank you, Jeff! :D 

 

But...

I do struggle with the current Enlightenment box/window re-sizing tool.  It's very pretty, but if I'm honest, I prefer that little arrow-angle in the corner (is that a GTK thing?) which is less pretty but so much easier to work.          

 

I've searched the forum & wiki on 'sizing' and 're-sizing' with no luck so far. 

 

Turns out that  it's not just bespectacled geriatric beardies peering at 32" screens  that  feel this way, some of our teens (now  flying solo) also find the re-sizing tool annoying, but had never mentioned it until asked.

 

So, could Moksha have re-sizeable windows/boxen *wherever* possible, and a 'less-tricksy'  sizing tool, please?               

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@flymo, I've heard this dozens of times over the years on IRC.  E/Moksha has always had a very small space where the mouse pointer changes at the edge of windows and you can click/drag to resize.  It's annoying. 

 

One of the things I loved about linux originally was the standardized resize box in the bottom right corners of lots of GTK apps and others.  It made it easier to resize stuff than in window$.  Then I found bodhi, and I think it's better than the rest of linux except for a few small things.  This is one of those things.  Hopefully we'll find a fix for it.  Thanks for the input. :)

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SimplEx theme that I hope to release on Agusy will have big window borders, so it will be easy the resizing of window in every direction. :)

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It's not the size of the window border that matters, really.  The borders just need an invisible area of about 25-30 pixels around it that will allow the mouse to click/drag to resize.

 

Or you could do the GTK thing and start standardizing a "click here to resize" corner widget on apps we make.  The first option sounds easier lol

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Thanks, folks!

I've long been burrowing around for something I could configure, but mealtimes and tax forms and other real life items have usually interrupted my attempts over the years.  

 

A larger Invisible Area sounds pretty neat.  Don't want to choose a harder option unless it's essential.

 

About the new Moksha Menu -  it is certainly much less cluttered which is good,  but I find I do miss the "Windows" item that  finds things on our 3 or 4 desktops.

 

Rather than asking here for its restitution or replacement, I did some research...

 

Turns out one can assign a hotkey pair (I chose ALT-F11) pretty easily to bring up the "Window Plugin" for Do Everything. 

Menu > Settings > All > Input > Key Bindings

..then select  ALT-F11 in the left pane 
...and scroll down to Everything Launcher in the right one.
"Show Windows Plugin" is a bit lower down - select that too, and click on Apply. 

Done!

This sorta solves it, except for one of the weirdnesses of Do Everything.

What it'll do is offer a useful list of windows, but *only* the first time.

 

If I use one of the choices which takes me to my window most effectively, Do Everything now knows what I like!  

 

So next time I hit Alt-F11, that 's the only one it shows. 

It's _too_ helpful!  <_<

 

 

There's probably a setting to nullify this  for Do Everything that I have yet to find.

If I do, I'll post it.

 

(Edit: It's pretty easy, I'm appending it to the end of this post.)

 

Which reminds me...

 

Why is Do Everything set in cement on the Double-Click thing? My arthritis objects to it...

 

Please tell me that's an easy one to fix?

Pretty Please? :D

 

Edit:

========================================================

How to modify the Do Everything 'Windows Plugin'

This may or may not be the right way, but it works for me...

Menu > Settings > All > Launcher > Everything Configuration

Select the "Plugins" tab near the top.
Ensure the "Subject" tab is selected on the row below, then "Windows" in the left-hand pane.

Uncheck "Show in All" and "Show in Top Level"

Hit 'OK', and it's done.

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You can also just press enter to trigger the thing you want launched from everything. As a 100% keyboard driven tool it is super quick. Arrow keys work as well.

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It's not the size of the window border that matters, really.  The borders just need an invisible area of about 25-30 pixels around it that will allow the mouse to click/drag to resize.

 

Or you could do the GTK thing and start standardizing a "click here to resize" corner widget on apps we make.  The first option sounds easier lol

Yes, I obviously mean that the swallow parts e.event.resize.* will be bigger on SimplEx theme, but I've explained in an easy way :P

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Start module could be themed like cinnamon. Also, a search field in the start module would be nice.

 

just try the everything launcher, usually alt+esc :-)

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Yes, benevolex - Everything Launcher can be really handy - I'm using it more and more, gradually.

Changing habits can sometimes take longer than acquiring them in the first place.

 

On our 'posse' systems for beginners I usually configure it to look more like a menu - mostly list mode rather than icons, and explain that there is a choice of start menus in Bodhi.

 

@Jeff - you are as ever entirely right!

The enter key is king in Everything.   It's also pretty neat the way one can use the arrow keys to flip back & forth.

These days that's how I mostly intend to do things in Everything.

Except for the times when I forget! :wacko:

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One quirk of E17/Moksha that most people, including myself, don't like is the fact that we can't screenshot anything when a drop-menu is open.  This includes the start menu and also the drop-menus for applications.

 

E19 can do this, and it doesn't seem like it would be so hard to work out. (then again..)

 

Another cool thing to add to the module would be a countdown-timer for shots  (Jeff's idea, not mine.)

 

I'd like this to be on the list of things to try to fix in time for 4.0.

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This isn't a bug so there is nothing "to fix" deepspeed. It is a new feature you want added.

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... if a feature doesn't exist, does that mean its a bug because it wont work? ... or is it more like the falling tree in the forest kind of thing..... j/k ... an attempt at Monday morning humor :wacko:

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A bug is when something doesn't do what is was intended to do. Moksha's built in shot module does what it was intended to do - take screen shots. It just doesn't do more advanced things like time-delayed shots.

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I've seen on E-devel Mailing List that there's a stable version of systray (no XEMBED but Libappindicator) module released.

I've thought could be something useful to add it as a separate module. In other DE Notification Area (ususually Xembed) is a separate applet / module from Indicators.

 

What do you think? I suppose this is totally NOT a priority, but maybe backporting a module isn't so hard and could be done in dev's spare time. (maybe? Or is this a stupid thing to say? :D )

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As far as screenshot is concerned. I made some packages for Jeff, and there is a screenshot module sources. After debate I suppose, this module should be able to do what you want. Unfortunately I was not able to compile sources, because autogen.sh stopped at the line where emprint was needed. I have no idea what it is and how to install it... I have to spare more time for solving this issue.

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Ah, OK. It was very easy to solve. I have found a git for emprint utility. Compiled firstly makes possible to compile screenshot module succesfully. Now I have working advanced screenshot gadget with countdown-timer and results you needed. Wait for making debs (i386 and 64b). I will send them to Jeff tomorow...:)

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The systray without xembed support is a reason the systray in E18+ is so useless. Traditional support was broken before, now it is gone.

 

Perhaps it might be worth while if we can get them to work side by side, but I have no idea off hand what conflicts might arise.

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Alright, thought of something after installing Bodhi for a family member.

 

I think the Fill and Stretch Options for the wallpapers should be available on the main wallpaper screen. And with this, you could adjust the setting on the individual wallpapers already in the list. Without having to select the same image for a wallpaper again and ending up with multiple versions of the same thing differently stretched out. (As I've done in trying to find the right setting for a particular wallpaper. :lol:)

 

They had been trying to add a wallpaper by right-clicking the image and looking for some Set As Wallpaper option. (I think both in their browser and in PCManFM, though I didn't quite double check.) Maybe something along those lines would be a nice option, if doable and not too much trouble.

Though I think just making the Wallpaper area so you can easily change the fill/stretch would be a good enough improvement, just having some new users adjust to only setting wallpapers through the special panel.

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Here is improved for clearer reading log of IRC chat:

 

 

<andrello> hi Timothy, i thought a little bit on this DE GUI.. i see we have this "launcher shelf" now, and we can divide it into two functional areas: a kind of "systray"
area, and the area with big Launch shortcut icons.

And the main "start menu" we also can divide into 2 conceptual "target fields"  - Settings menu "item area" , and
Applications menu "item area", each with their own sub-menu.

Imho it can be nice to have two small rectangular buttons in the Launcher, of a size of half big
"launcher" icon. Two buttons for every of two "conceptual target fields" - a button for "systray" area and a button for for "launcher icons" area;

when u press onto those buttons, in "systray button" case it will
open a menu with "settings" from the main system "start menu";

and if u press on such button, situated in the main Launcher area with shortcuts icons, it will
open Applications menu item, which is now situated in the main system "start menu".

If you think it's helpful feature - u can ask your people
to implement it.

<Timmy_L> Hey there, I saw your PM but didn't really get what it's you're trying to say (possibly because I haven't been using E/Moksha
much lately). I think the best approach would be to open an issue on the Moksha GitHub: https://github.com/JeffHoogland/mokshawhere you
describe what it is you want. But keep in mind, the first version of Moksha for Bodhi 3.1 will probably only be E17 with a few backported
features of E19 and the Bodhi specific settings that we've always shipped E with. Oh yeah and another option (instead of opening an issue on
GitHub) would be to make a post on the forums.

<andrello> hi.. another feature request :) when application window is minimized, the launcher icon has a small orange dot and a floating popup
"window tile", when u click onto it, it restores the window, another area for functionality is unused though - when the window is maximized,
the user would click onto the floating popup "window tile" of a maximized window, and it would for example - either minimize, either close

the app's window. Hope that helps :o)

<andrello> i think "minimize" is a great function to click onto the "window's tile" for window which is currently active, because for example
u work with something, and then you want to open another program.. a lot of people are forgetful, so they immediately go with their

mouse pointer to the area of the launcher, and "voila!" - there is already "minimize" function waiting for them there.

 

Also: the "4-minidesktop thing" in the launcher: it
is better to make not mini-copies of windows showing there, but lists of small mini-icons of
applications currently running and have active UIs.

 

In such way the GUI will be more intuitional.

 

 

 

That's my two cents :]

fotolia_35754361.jpg

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I doubt we are going to be adding features as major as supporting multiple users logging in.

Wow this pretty much kills Moksha for me.

I've always seen switching users as a basic feature? 

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Wow this pretty much kills Moksha for me.

I've always seen switching users as a basic feature? 

 

I am referring to the amount of work it takes to create such a feature. Patches are welcome - if someone else wants to do the work, we will integrate it into moksha. This isn't a trivial task though - which is why E has never supported this. 

 

I already have a decent TODO list of things I want to do as my time to work on Bodhi allows and this just doesn't make the cut. It is something many people have zero need for.

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