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Jeff

Bodhi 4.4.0 Released

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Thank you for your insanely hard work. 

 

If I may, before I download, I would like to ask 2 questions: 

 

Will this be any slower (read: resources hungry) than the earlier versions of 4.x?  

 

Have you decided to correct the way the (right-click-on-desktop) menu reacts when activated near the right ride of the screen? 

(so that it cascades into available space (to the left if no space on the right, in line with generally accepted standards and best practices), rather than requiring additional mouse gestures to move it to the left because it continues to cascade to the right)

 

Thank you.

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Answer to question no 1

 

I dare say: No, it should be at same performance than before. Only kernel was updated and some minor fixes.

 

Answer to question no 2

 

No, it is hard to do. As we said before (you already mentioned this issue before), we are not E developers. We "just" code some moksha modules/module fixes or patches which are important to do as well as theme updates/fixes. Yes, we are on learning curve, but spending weeks fixing one issue for one person is not very effective. Try to understand. At least my point of view. 

As I told you, there are many ways how to launch your apps and they are really very effective (quick launcher etc)

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Answer to question no 2

 

No, it is hard to do. As we said before (you already mentioned this issue before), we are not E developers. We "just" code some moksha modules/module fixes or patches which are important to do as well as theme updates/fixes. Yes, we are on learning curve, but spending weeks fixing one issue for one person is not very effective. Try to understand. At least my point of view. 

As I told you, there are many ways how to launch your apps and they are really very effective (quick launcher etc)

It isn't even that it is hard to do. This just isn't behavior we want to implement. The menu is working as intended.

 

If you want to submit a patch that adds this as an optional change that can be toggled on / off in the settings that would be accepted and integrated. This change of behavior is not something I am personally going to spend time on though.

 

As for speed - it will be the same. Exact same Moksha desktop as before. As is mentioned in the release post, this is just an update release to keep the ISO images up to date for people so they don't have to download a pile of updates after a fresh OS install. 

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Jeff, I understand his point. It behaves weird for new users. It is an unusual approach. But I won't be that person who will do this. It is hard to do for me due my knowledge and lack of time  ;)

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Answer to question no 2

but spending weeks fixing one issue for one person is not very effective

 

I really resent that!  "for one person".  Are you kidding me? 

 

I've been using computers since the mid 80s.  And I've NEVER ever seen a menu behave this way.  From early programs, like Works (for DOS), to anything modern, there is a logical and user-friendly way for a menu to cascade and behave within a space. 

 

I get that there are some E users who don't like change, and I may be outnumbered by them, but there are literally billions of users who expect it to work intuitively in a certain manner, because all those computer users on the planet are accustomed to their programs and apps behaving in a certain user-friendly way.  

 

Just because I'm the only one here chiming in about this, doesn't make it a "Timmi problem"!!! 

 

And I don't think that it is out of place, to inquire as to whether, in a new version, it may have been corrected. 

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Timmi relax :)

 

I beg your pardon if you did not read the answer you wanted to read. And no, I am not kidding you. I fully respect the friendly atmosphere of Bodhi Linux forum :)

OK, once again

These are our priority issues we need to solve.

https://github.com/JeffHoogland/moksha/issues

 

These are functionality issues which should be solved. Moreover I can mention a buggy systray which needs also some attention. But I agree with your point that I claimed above. Just needs to say, it is related to comfort of using and there are many and many ways how to get the same goal. Anyway, feel free to ask E developers about this feature (the menu system is theirs idea) and if they are willing help you, we can try to port the changes to moksha.

 

Stefan

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I really resent that!  "for one person".  Are you kidding me? 

 

I've been using computers since the mid 80s.  And I've NEVER ever seen a menu behave this way.  From early programs, like Works (for DOS), to anything modern, there is a logical and user-friendly way for a menu to cascade and behave within a space. 

 

I get that there are some E users who don't like change, and I may be outnumbered by them, but there are literally billions of users who expect it to work intuitively in a certain manner, because all those computer users on the planet are accustomed to their programs and apps behaving in a certain user-friendly way.  

 

Just because I'm the only one here chiming in about this, doesn't make it a "Timmi problem"!!! 

 

And I don't think that it is out of place, to inquire as to whether, in a new version, it may have been corrected. 

What you are asking for is a new feature. One that isn't even needed if someone understands what the menu does not.

 

I get it - it is different from what you are used to. You are right - people hate change - that is why you want the menu here to work like it does in other places.

 

Like I said - this is something that would be accepted as a feature because it doesn't hurt anything if someone wanted to write it. That being said - it doesn't really add much value to Moksha either so I don't plan to spend my own free time working on it. You are welcome to. 

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Don't click on that side of the screen?  Donno - monitors are relatively vast these days ^_^ jk/jk!

 

But being earnest and trying to assist, what do you have bound to right clicking?  Within programs and desktop clicking both right and left mouse both display nicely on my system near the right side of both of my monitors...right clicking shows on screen and left clicking slides over nicely to display sub-menus.  Is this not the behavior everyone experiences?  Screenshot?

 

I'm partially curious because I have been struggling with some xorg.conf settings for a while in my particular setup.

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I would like to add with a quote from enlightenment.org

We run as an open source project. People contribute because they like to or because they are paid.

 

if you would like to have it you can write it or pat to write it, however I do think that one of the big stand outs of E and Moksha is that it is very customizable and having options for the menus to behave how you want them to in that vein is a plus but we will have to wait or work on it  (once we talk about menus I was thinking that the right to left languages the menu should be opening on the left side...)

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Thank you for another release.

My Lenovo phone is seen by the 4.4.0 so that's a clear improvement for me.

 

Jeff  is there a reason for choosing EFL 1.19.1 instead of EFL 1.19.2?

It seems the 1.19.2 is the final release for E19.

Thank you.

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I would like to thank you all developers for creating such an excellent Linux distribution.

 

I am very happy with its functionality and the speed. I have all apps I need working flawlessly on Bodhi.

 

If someone asked me what features I would like to see in the future Bodhi releases, I would have hard time to make a list. Bodhi already has all I need.

 

Just a few requests: please keep it as lean as it is right now and please keep it cloud-free.

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Thank you for another release.

My Lenovo phone is seen by the 4.4.0 so that's a clear improvement for me.

 

Jeff  is there a reason for choosing EFL 1.19.1 instead of EFL 1.19.2?

It seems the 1.19.2 is the final release for E19.

Thank you.

I'll try to get 1.19.2 into the testing branch at some point soon.

 

In general I don't rush to upgrade EFL versions. They have a history of breaking things even in their releases so when we have a release that seems to be working well I don't rush to upgrade unless we need a specific feature / security fix from the latest release. 

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I'll try to get 1.19.2 into the testing branch at some point soon.

 

In general I don't rush to upgrade EFL versions. They have a history of breaking things even in their releases so when we have a release that seems to be working well I don't rush to upgrade unless we need a specific feature / security fix from the latest release. 

 

Thank you for your answer. I was just wondering if there was a technical reason for 1.19.1 instead of 1.19.2; 1.19.2 was released in 18 august and it's actually a few days older than Ephoto 1.5 and Terminology 1.1.0, both of which are included in 4.4.0.

I'm not really sure if it's an improvement over 1.19.1 but it could solve some small bugs: https://www.enlightenment.org/news/efl-1.19.2

 

Thank you for your hard work.

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Hello cooler

 

Look at the fixes list. There are many fixes related to Wayland (wl) display protocol. I do not know if you are the linux user who use it. As Jeff explained, we are pretty happy with the current EFL which provides good stability and performance. But there is your freedom for testing efl 1.19.2. Try it.

Bodhi linux is also a base for other platform like escuelas linux distributed on thousands of PC for students in Mexico. We are glad we got over stability troubles with EFL 1.18.4 in the past which led escuelas users to some headache (and ours of course).

Just my POV. I believe Jeff will answer soon :)

 

Stefan

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Anyway, feel free to ask E developers about this feature (the menu system is theirs idea) and if they are willing help you, we can try to port the changes to moksha.

Stefan

 

 

 

 

When it comes time to define Bodhi and what sets this distro apart from hundreds of others also based on debian, it all comes down to the user experience, doesn't it?  You call it Moksha, because you take Enlightenment and make it better.  But if someone points out a glaringly obvious oversight, all of a sudden, people start getting all offended and say it's not Moksha anymore - it's just plain debian with enlightenment on top of it and you forget that you're supposedly making Moksha. 

And now you want your end-users to negotiate with your upstream sources on your behalf?  Please do tell us how you plan to grant us that power.

 

You guys would stand to gain, if you made up your mind - either you are responsible for the Moksha experience or you aren't. 

If you do it, you should own it.

 

Very sorry that I brought up the question again, and that you find source of irritation with it. I find your standoffish attitude surprising.  I only asked because I saw there was a new version and was curious as to whether it was fixed or not. 

Maybe I'll just shut up and join the others who left without giving you any feedback. I wouldn't want to be the last one left who gets it and gives you extra work. That's just a way of making me feel guilty.  Very sorry that I asked.

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Anyway, feel free to ask E developers about this feature (the menu system is theirs idea) and if they are willing help you, we can try to port the changes to moksha.

Stefan

 

 

 

 

When it comes time to define Bodhi and what sets this distro apart from hundreds of others also based on debian, it all comes down to the user experience, doesn't it?  You call it Moksha, because you take Enlightenment and make it better.  But if someone points out a glaringly obvious oversight, all of a sudden, people start getting all offended and say it's not Moksha anymore - it's just plain debian with enlightenment on top of it and you forget that you're supposedly making Moksha. 

And now you want your end-users to negotiate with your upstream sources on your behalf?  Please do tell us how you plan to grant us that power.

You guys would stand to gain, if you made up your mind - either you are responsible for the Moksha experience or you aren't. 

Very sorry that I brought up the question again, and that you find source of irritation with it. I find your standoffish attitude surprising.  I only asked because I saw there was a new version and was curious as to whether it was fixed or not. 

Maybe I'll just shut up and join the others who left without giving you any feedback. I wouldn't want to be the last one left who gets it and gives you extra work. That's just a way of making me feel guilty.  Very sorry that I asked.

 

 

I feel like you really just don't understand what we are doing here. We aren't trying to be set apart. We aren't trying to be special. We are trying to provide a Linux distribution that works for our needs. If it doesn't work for your needs feel free to contribute so it does, or move onto something else. That is the great thing about open source - you have lots of choice.

 

We aren't some all reaching project. We aren't trying to be everything to everyone. We are trying to provide a stable desktop for our own personal computers. If that also works for other people great! If it doesn't work for you - don't use it. 

 

No need to throw a fit because no one contributing their time for free to the Bodhi project doesn't find a feature you want useful enough to write ourselves. 

 

The only person responsible for your user experience is you

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I have no more energy for answers...

 

In Bodhi, we encourage fellows not to tire one selves out unnecessarily in our respective voluntary incarnations, whether are you solving a technical glitch or releasing 4.5.0 next, breathe in and realise that we are alive!  :) 

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