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vvkozmenko

History of Enlightenment on Wikipedia

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Hi, guys,

 

I've read history of Enlightenment on Wikipedia this morning. I cannot speak about all the technical details of this DE but I can see some obvious trends that I have questions about.

 

1. E17 was in development 12 years. Obviously, the team has put a lot of thoughts, time and effort into it. It became available in 2012. Based on what most people say at this forum and on the fact that Moksha is based on E17, it is a very good environment. Why it did not gain popularity? Some new DEs such as Budgie are very well received and adopted quickly. Is E17 unpopular because it does many things differently (not worse - often better) than the other DEs?

 

2. After spending so many years on E17 development and coming with a thought through product, all further releases are just disastrous (based on the reviews - I have not used any of them). What happened to the team? Why the rush with the immature releases? Where is the vision for the project?

 

Enlightenment is a big mystery for me - once a good but unappreciated product, completely ignored by the entire Linux world, dramatically changed approach to development and vision of the product.

 

My only experience with E-like environments is Moksha, and this experience is very good. I do not know why people think that it has a learning curve for a PC or Mac user - as far as I can see, everything is very simple and intuitive. 

 

Thank you,

 

Val 

 

PS Someone would need to start a page on Wikipedia about Moksha. There is a dead link reference to Moksha desktop at the Enlightenment page on Wikipedia.

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Hello there

 

1. I believe there are bigger experts for E than me on this forum which will be more detailed in reply. Anyway, I have read a lot of user reviews and E was always the type of desktop which they like or hate. When I chose this distro in 2011, I switched from Windows and knew absolutely nothing about Linux. The switching was a real nightmare and I almost gave up. Fortunately a colleague of mine had some good experiences with Linux and helped me with this part. As far as desktop was concerned, I also struggled. Everything was different. Work with Windows, shelves, settings, modules, gadgets. Simply the new world. I don't know why but the design attracted me and I still got back and with method trial and error got used to it. After some times I tried different desktops liked LXDE, GNOME, UNITY, KDE. They are "more close" to people, indeed. But 3 of them was very heavy to suit my HW I had in my PCs. LXDE was and still is almost the same as E. Very lightweight and customizable but I consider it not as attractive as E.

Choosing the desktop is a matter of choice. Best known distros like Ubuntu or  Mint have their own DEs and some new users even do not know there are more desktops. They don't care. It is working fine. People are also lazy to get the Distribution bare as Bodhi Linux and install SW or play with set up. They want McDrive distros. Take and go...

Maybe one day the E popularity will increase, because of masive Wayland support. We will see.

 

2. The E dev team is hugely involved in Tizen project (OS for TVs and Watches) by Samsung. Maybe there is you answer. 

 

Anyway I will follow this thread because your questions are interesting and great to discuss.

 

Stefan

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Hi, Stefan,

 

Thank you for the answer and for your personal story of learning Linux.

 

My first computer was an old Macintosh SE with System 7, than I used both Mac OS 7 and Windows 95->98->ME->XP. Then for a year or two I was using both Mac OS X and Windows XP. In 2009, I installed RH Fedora on an old Compaq and used it for a couple of months before I gave that laptop to somebody else. I was using only Mac OS X until 2015. In 2015 I bought a MintBox Mini and ran it with Linux Mint 17.x. Then I found Bodhi 3 and kept an eye on it for a while. Then I decided to buy an old laptop for travelling purposes and needed an lightweight Linux distro (I also was considering a Raspberry Pi 3 at that time as an alternative for Linux). I've bought Lenovo ThinkPad x200s for $125 (one of my best purchases) and installed Bodhi 4 on it. In January I got rid of the Linux Mint on the MintBox and installed Bodhi 4.4.0 (now it has 4.5.0). All works pretty well so far.

 

It turned out that Lenovo x200s became my primary computer to use instead of being a cheap travel laptop to throw away in case of damage during travel. It gives me the most satisfying experience - both laptop and Bodhi that it runs. With about a year and a half of experience with Linux Mint, I have not had major problems while switching to Bodhi. Occasionally, I had troubles with installing packages via ppa but you, The Waiter, and others on this forum including Oblio helped me with their resolutions. I do not consider myself a dumb person and I am not a genius too, so I am surprised that people claim that Bodhi has a learning curve. To just simply find out how to use it - it took me less than 15 min to figure out how it works.

 

Searching internet with "Bodhi," "Moksha," and "Enlightenment" as keywords did not produce millions results as it was with the other distros. So I had questions.

 

This kind of explains the background behind those questions that I asked.

 

Thank you again,

 

val

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As someone that used E16, E17, e18, and a tiny bit of E20, I noticed a few things about E that could contribute.  I know some of the E developers and have chatted with them on technical and nontechnical matters.  By and large they are good folks.  They don't always have the same goals as a lot of end users.  Samsung is paying some of them a good bit of money to work on E.  As such, the features Samsung wants get worked on first.  The stuff the rest of us want gets dumped on the heap and gets worked on when it suits if at all.  A big case in point was the system tray module.  It became horribly broken after E17 and there was little to no effort by the E devs to make it work.  System tray isn't all that useful on watches and TVs.  It's almost essential for a desktop OS though.  As far as Bodhi goes, the early days of beating E17 into submission were great days.  Once we got things working to the point the 1.0 release came out, E17 would be zippy AND pretty on older hardware.  I had it running on an IBM Thinkpad from the year 2000 with a Pentium 166Mhz and 512MB RAM.  I could browse, check email, use ssh and the terminal and it was responsive.  I of course would not expect such a machine to do CAD or anything demanding.  I kept it around for the physical serial port for interfacing with Cisco switches via serial console. Bodhi kept that machine useful and pretty 15 years after it was released.

 

Unfortunately I migrated away from E during the E18/E20 days and fell in love with i3 from a workflow standpoint  It's nowhere near as pretty as Enlightenment, but these days full use of my screen real estate is pretty important.  I have 9 virtual desktops across 3 monitors and each one is chock full of terminals, browsers, and other apps.  I do still fire up new Bodhi releases and try to break them prior to release and do enjoy that time.

 

Tristam

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It's a tiling window manager.  Applications are tiled across the whole screen.  You don't click and drag them anywhere, you just resize them or move them with keyboard shortcuts.  I only use my mouse in my web browser, email client, and a few GUI apps.  Most of the time I'm in the terminal though.  I have 8-10 terminals open and doing stuff most of the time at work.  It's an acquired taste and again, not as pretty as E by any stretch.  I've seen people use something called tmux to do a lot of the stuff I like about i3 from a terminal perspective, but I haven't played with it.

 

https://i3wm.org/

 

Tristam

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HI, Tristam,

 

I've searched YouTube for i3 and found this video. I understand what you are saying that i3 is an acquired taste. With my current knowledge and skills in Linux, I would be totally lost in i3. Still, I would love to learn it. It looks very cool.

 

 

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Mine is a little prettier than that.  I use compositing, background images, and transparent terminals.

 

screenshot-20180507.png

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Yeah, I'm an idiot.  My 280 posts have taken 7 years to amass.  I'm not so savvy on the forums even though I'm the one that installs and maintains them.  Go figure.  Screenshot is there now.

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If you ever want to use a pretty desktop manager again @Tristam we have a tiling module in Moksha ;)

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Ah, but is it as simple and functional as i3?  I don't have to touch my mouse unless I'm in one of those silly graphical applications I have to use.

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